1. Why do we need a DKP? Why can't we just /roll?

There are many ways to assign loot: /roll, DKP, ladder, council loot etc. There are pros and cons to each system, each worth of an essay.

The long and short is that after extensive discussion within the guild forum, our current DKP system was adopted. It is not the best (there is no best) and not everyone agrees with or likes it (we dont expect everyone to agree) but this is what we have.

2. No, I hate DKP and I want to the guild to drop it! Now!

Okay then. Please draft your proposed loot system in the guild public forum in careful details. Start a discussion and refine your system. If there is a rough consensus that the guild likes the proposed system more then the one we have now, then we switch over.

3. How do you determine "X"? (aka "Why are we not getting constant DKP per hour"?)

DKP is given for (a) ontime (b) time-spend in raiding and (c) boss kill. This is roughly known as "time-based DKP". One known problem of time-based DKP systems is that over a long period of time, we have DKP inflation unlike a "zero-sum DKP".

In order to prevent inflation, on a periodic basis, we will calculate the total DKP awarded to all raiders and compare it to the total amount of DKP spent during a period of time. The two numbers should be (ideally) the same but more likely are not. Based on the difference, we will adjust the value of X so that it is roughly equal.

The idea is that the sum of all our DKP should be roughly net-zero.

4. But isn't that unfair? I am getting X=2 now but others used to get X=5?

When we start the system, we have no basis of comparison so we take the best estimate of X=5. However, after running the system for a while, we realized that it too high so we adjusted down to X=2. It is due for a review and based on progress made, X is likely to be adjusted upwards.

As we made progress with our raid, ie, fewer wipes, moving along faster, more boss kills and more loot, X will continue to be adjusted upwards accordingly.

5. Why do we bid for the loot? Why can't we use a fixed DKP system?

Because the same loot is can be valued differently for different people. You may feel this item is worth 100 DKP but someone else may feel it is worth 200 DKP. If someone is interested enough to bid 200 DKP and you choose not to, then it is a choice you made.

To prevent underbidding or overbidding, we imposed a min and max DKP value on the item.

6. Why do we allow people to bid below their current DKP?

The goal of our DKP system is to maintain a net-zero DKP for all our players. If there are players with positive DKP, then someone must have negative DKP. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to have zero or positive DKPs and maintain a net-zero DKP as well.

In other words, we must let players go negative.

7. Why maintain net-zero DKP? (aka why DKP inflation is bad?)

Maintaining net-zero DKP is to ensure we don't have DKP inflation problem in the long run.

DKP inflation is bad because it discourage casual or new players to join our raid. Imaging a situation where all the hardcore or long time raiders having 500-1000 dkp; Would you as a new player join the raid knowing you probably going to spend a lot of time before you can catch up?

8. Others may intentionly bid up the DKP so I would used up my DKP!

First, we would like to think our own guild mates wouldn't do that that to other guild mates.

If you think they are intentionally bidding up the item, then you have a choice to stop bidding and call their bluff.

In reality, most epics are awarded at min or close to min. value. A handful that is bid quite high or to the max are those that are rare. See dkp accounting

9. I am so negative in DKP and at current rate, I will take forever to get back positive. I am demoralized.

If your DKP is negative, this means you have already received loot in a previous run. In otherwords, it is someone elses turn to loot.

As to how quickly you can get loot, we are limited by how many boss we can kill per week.

 At our current stage, assuming we can kill Garr consistently, ie 4 boss per week, each week we will have 2*2 + 2*3 = 10 epics. If we add some random drops, we may have 12-14 epics per week. With 40 players, how many epics each player will get per month?

 That's the rate you should expect to get epics.

10. Why don't we make the loot cheaper then?

If we make the loot cheaper, then when we calculate the DKP awarded vs DKP spent, X will be adjust downwards. The system will balance out itself.

The only way to get loot faster is we make more progress in raid, ie, more boss kills per week.

11. But someone got 2 or even 3 epics one run the other day!

Well, shit happens!

We can't control the epic drops. If only one person can use (or want) the epic, we are not going to let the epic rot just because they have 2 or 3 already.

Bear in mind that that person is going to be in extremely negative in DKP so it will be a long time before they get another drop.

12. Why do we do open bidding? I like my bid to be secret.

Open bid because we want the bid process to be transparent.

It is also not possible for the bid to be secret because we need to provide accounting for the DKP to the guild and publish the balances.

13. Why do we keep boe epics in the bank and not give it to X? (aka why can't we go negative when bidding for epics in the bank?)

Guild members are allowed to go negative DKP when bidding for epics (even boe) during raid. However, if they apply from the bank, they are expected to have sufficient DKP (ie, min DKP value).

The rationale behind allowing people to go negative while on raid but not negative when bidding on bank epics is because if you are on the raid, you helped kill the mob that drop the epic. The reason you can't go negative when bidding on bank epics is because it isn't fair to the people who gave up their time and effort to get that epic if you decided to get it from the bank and then quit the guild (unless of course, you had the dkp for it, then fine, you earned it).

That may sound negative but we had a few people who got epic and left. It upset quite a few members.

14. I still think DKP is unfair.

Please see (2)

15. Can I bring my alts to MC?

The simple answer is 'Yes'.

A more complicated answer is 'Maybe'. You have to sign up with the respective class representatives. Each class have different system to decide who gets to go to MC and they may or may not have different priorities for mains and alts. The best is to check with the relevant class representatives.

But before you want to bring your alts to MC, please consider the following:

Every week, assuming we can clear 8 MC boss consistently, we will get 4*2 + 4*3 = 20 epics +/- a few epics, so lets say 24 epics. Each player would need 8-16 epics (min 8/8 class) to be "completed". In We Know, we have 60-80 raiders right now, so in total we need 480 to 1,280 epics for everyone. At the min, it will takes us min 20 weeks but could be as long 54 weeks, ie you can expect to get an epic once every 2.5 weeks to 3.5 weeks, or in total you need min 37 weeks, 9 months.

You need roughly 9 months to equip up one toon. If you bring an alt, prepare to spend up to 1.5 years and add 9 months for each alt you bring.

It is also important to note that the 9 month estimation has nothing to do with DKP. It is limited by MC reset timer, how many bosses we can kill (ie epics we get per week) and how many toons we have.